EXOCET 2009 : WINDSURFING BOARDS

	Post number : #1
	Topic :	2008 Exocet Formula - the black machine
	Date :	9/29/2007 10:52:11 AM Author : Leszek Rutkowski
		Hi guys, I'm on Sylt at the moment. Patrice came over with the new Formula so Ben, Maciek and I had the chance to test the board a bit. The first thing you nottice is the weight. It's only 7.8 kg !!! There's a chance that it will be the lightest board on the market this season. Patrice made sure that it's carbon and almost nothing else. That's why the board is black without any fancy paint-work. When you go out once more you feel how light it is. The board planes really early and gives you an easy feel. The wide tale gets a lot of power from the fin which gives a nice lift and fantastic angle upwind. A long, square rail locks the board on the upwind so all you have to do is keep it on the rail and keep going. Comparing to the last year it's a totally different board. It's wider- especially on the back. The rails are longer and more square-shaped. There are double cut-outs. And finally it weights much less. The bottom shape is also changed so the acceleration and top speed should be better. That's it for now. I'll let you know once we test it against the new boards from Starboard and F2. P.S. the new rules say that the board registered this winter stays for 2008 and also for 2009.




	Post number : #2
	Date :	9/29/2007 10:53:48 AM Author : Leszek
		I'll try to get you some pics if I find a camera...




	Post number : #3
	Date :	9/29/2007 7:43:38 PM Author : JW
		Just find it :)




	Post number : #4
	Date :	9/30/2007 9:07:31 AM Author : Leszek
		there you go http://www.leszekrutkowski.pl/index.php?action=full&id=88




	Post number : #5
	Date :	9/30/2007 9:29:13 AM Author : JT
		Is the final production version also black? then the board will get pretty hot? The board is not without strping so?




	Post number : #6
	Date :	9/30/2007 7:30:35 PM Author : Koen B-12
		Yep, production version will be the same: full carbon sanded finish, so no extra weight of filler, no extraweight of primer and no extra weight of paint. Sun heating is not really a problem during sailing since the board is cooling down by watertemp and airtemp. When parking the board on the sand & in the sun, the black surface will be hotter then an white one, no doubt about that, but the hispec epoxy that is used should be able to resist those temp and don't become soft. Might be good to open the valve if you park a long time to let the overpressure in the foamcore out. Maybe the boards will be fitted with a valve that can be opened by hand. If you look to the way some of the other formula boards where sanded the last years,....., there was more black then white area. The weight reduction on the new Warp formula has a significant effect on the performance of the board and that is what counts the most for a racingmachine, some extra care when parking the board in the sun is not that hard and does not weigh up to the benefits.




	Post number : #7
	Date :	9/30/2007 8:42:53 PM Author : liam gbr948
		the board looks great. has it been registered for next year?




	Post number : #8
	Date :	10/1/2007 7:22:27 AM Author : Koen B-12
		Registration is ongoing. The new warp formula will be class legal from 2008. Since the IFWCA rules doesn't allow any new board registrations in 2009, (2 yearly registration period) , the new WF will be at least 2 yaers in the program. best regards, Koen Sonck Exocet Team




	Post number : #9
	Date :	10/1/2007 9:55:30 AM Author : headache
		Black is very good step to catch attention at presentation. But I don't think it is good for everyday use. Black just ads headache because of danger of owerheating, board has enough mechanical loads to withstand and now temperature and UV is added. All the times race boards were coated with white paint to reduce temperature impact, fill micro holes between fibers and because white is the lightest paint. Without information about technology innovations that have replaced painting I am a bit sceptic about bare carbon on outside .




	Post number : #10
	Date :	10/1/2007 11:40:34 AM Author : Koen B-12
		Hi headache, I understand your concerns and it is something we have been thinking about too. It is thrue that in classic custom construction, there where a lot of microholes in the laminate that needed to be filled (less with mould technologie). Fastest and easiest way was with putty and primer. Putty and primer is fast curing and easy to sand again. But it is heavy. On the lightest custom boards, instead of the primer/putty, you can put a thin epoxylayer. The mechanical properties of the epoxy is far better then the primer or putty, but it takes a longer time to harden and is not so easy to sand down. Other benefit is also that the epoxylayer, once sanded can serve perfectly as a "final" finish. There is no discussion that the material technologie as proposed on the new warp formula gives a lighter board. On top of that , the all carbon construction (instead of wood) is giving a far more stable result overtime. When it comes to the temp impact, it would always be possible to spray a thiny heat reflecting (white/silver) paint layer on the bottom of the board. Not to seal, just to reflect, so in theory this could be an extremely thin layer. It would be good to hear some more thoughts about this from the potential formula board buyers. What do you prefer: taking some extra care when parking your board in the sdirect sun, or lowest weight possible for max on water performance?.




	Post number : #11
	Date :	10/1/2007 12:07:43 PM Author : Koen B-12
		Maybe I should also mention that the deck deco is made of close to 50% white stripes. This will help already when parking the board with straps up.




	Post number : #12
	Date :	10/1/2007 12:21:06 PM Author : Koen B-12
		Here you see the double chamfer for better downwind performance




	Post number : #13
	Date :	10/1/2007 12:28:21 PM Author : Koen B-12
		tail + carbon sanded finish




	Post number : #14
	Date :	10/1/2007 12:34:11 PM Author : Koen B-12
		complete outline : wider tail and nose




	Post number : #15
	Date :	10/1/2007 1:11:29 PM Author : IJ
		Koen/Patrice The board looks great. In my opinion, one side should not be black. I think the deck is less of a problem, it would be a simple task to spray a very thin white coating on the bottom. The finish from the spray gun could have the appearnace of the heavily sanded boards you see at the moment. This should be easy to achieve with a white version of the grey primer you used to see on the bottom of older custom boards. This would allow the board to be laid bottom side up in hot sailing venues that have limited or no shade. How about Gortex air valves so that the pressure is always equalised?




	Post number : #16
	Date :	10/1/2007 3:08:26 PM Author : Koen B-12
		Hi IJ, Good proposals that we have discussed also. The first boards needed to be ready now in order to fullfill the IFWCA registration timeslot. These "production low volume " (=PLV)" boards are 100% identical in shape and construction like the "production high volume" (= PHV) boards that will leave the factory within 1 or 2 months. A good sample to validate shape and construction. Although construction has been tested prior to PLV, if something was missed and heat reflecting layer needs to added, it is no problem to do so on PHV boards. If some of the people buying this "ultimate" racing machine don't want to take some extra careoff the board when parking in the sun, there is offcourse always the possibility to spray a little "mistlayer" of "spraycan" carpaint on the bottom yourself. there is no rule preventing somebody from doing that. On the other hand, it is not allowed to sand away the paintlayer if initially delivered and registrated with. If you walked along the FW competitorfield, you could anyhow notice that a lot of people sanded the bottom down to bare carbon,.... Regarding the Gortex air valves: in theory it is a real good idea and we have been talking about it too. These valves have been on the market for some years now and there are people that have encountered problems with these valves (salty water,.....). So maybe the best option is an airvent that you can open by hand,......




	Post number : #17
	Date :	10/1/2007 3:16:52 PM Author : Koen B-12
		This are the vents I was referring too: "thumb vent screw". Can be fitted on any "standard" airvent .




	Post number : #18
	Date :	10/1/2007 3:21:04 PM Author : Bob
		The board looks great! I want to try it, and buy it! :-) /Bob




	Post number : #19
	Date :	10/1/2007 3:37:19 PM Author : Koen B-12
		Here the Gore-tex valve IJ was taking about. On this picture you see the disassembled one. The protective black cap on the right should be fitted over the goretex membrane. These caps are rather sensitive and I have seen lmore then one board where this cap came loose and was lost, so it is very important to put these valves where no foot, boom or mast can come and destroy it. In theory, the goretex doesn't allow water to penetrate. Overtime, salt can built up inside and block the breathing, Salt cristals can be really hard, so when you think that you are protected from overheating, you are not.




	Post number : #20
	Date :	10/1/2007 7:46:01 PM Author : headache
		Thanks for explanations. I had Seatrend board with defective goretex vent. My friend too. Small thing that makes a lot waranty problems and 1 kg water inside the board.




	Post number : #21
	Date :	10/2/2007 3:30:01 AM Author : martin
		I have had my rig sitting in the sun for 20 minutes and the mast has been so hot I could not touch it . The board looks great but heat will be an issue in some places .




	Post number : #22
	Date :	10/2/2007 7:54:49 AM Author : headache
		2 martin mast sleeve acumulates heat. it becomes hot inside and without direct sunlight. Never leave tensioned sail on direct sunlight more than 10 minutes. After several "experiments" now I use North formula sails with white sleeve.




	Post number : #23
	Date :	10/2/2007 9:30:03 AM Author : Remi
		Using Exo boards only I would like to see a thin white coat on the new Warp Formula which would be insignificant weight-wise if the water tightness of the carbon finish has already been taken care of. As for the manual vent, not sure as you want this to be firmly screwed on... Gore-Tex vent are used on all Carbonart boards, may be worth checking with them how it handles salt water etc.. I volunteer to test the board in warm weather being in Oz and getting to the warm summer very soon... our season is only starting so I can do plenty of tests!! Cheers, Remi




	Post number : #24
	Date :	10/2/2007 9:32:01 AM Author : Remi
		Lets leave the mast issue for another post as it is quite different... Masts are under tension which means that creep is involved as opposed to the boards not being loaded while parking! Cheers, Remi




	Post number : #25
	Date :	10/2/2007 1:36:44 PM Author : Patrice (Exocet)
		the board will be delivered with a "sun cover " protection bag that is really easy to install even though the rig is on the board goretex valve is not an issue for the time being , untill now I have never see a relible product that would resist to sun, salt and dry weather




	Post number : #26
	Date :	10/2/2007 1:39:30 PM Author : John I
		In FL, one would have to spray a thin coat of white on the bottom. May add 28-32 grams at most (about an once, imperials). Or, have the board bag at the ready as soon as the board is beached. Spray on a coat that can be sanded off easily if the board is to be sold to someone north of Washington DC...




	Post number : #27
	Date :	10/2/2007 6:54:03 PM Author : Leszek
		hi guys, personally I think it's a good step to cut the weight at all costs. For sure it would be possible to make the board silver to reflect more sun but it's not a priority. It's good enough to have a silver bag to cever the board from the sun. Formula is a pure racing thing and the performance is the most important issue. so every 10 grams matter. You'll see that once we start winning races on this board people will start making up theories that black is actually faster because....




	Post number : #28
	Date :	10/2/2007 6:57:12 PM Author : Leszek
		what's the point of buying a board in the best technologies available if you want to hand-spray it later ?? And if you have to spray it, don't touch the bottom, do the top. It's the bottom that touches the water and has to be perfect...




	Post number : #29
	Date :	10/2/2007 7:56:32 PM Author : John I
		My point exactly. In FL, we're near the tropics. HOT sun. The inside heating will explode the laminate. The board wil turn into a sausage. Easiest protection would be the paint. Another pain in the adz step would be yet another nail in the coffin for the FW class stuff.




	Post number : #30
	Date :	10/3/2007 10:49:50 AM Author : JW
		If performance is key and therefore any weightsaving is desireable then leave the (nice) striping away also. If no paint because of weight issues then leave also the marketing striping and deliver it 100% WITHOUT any paint. If then to choose for striping or painting? Please choose a very thin layer of withe to blacj away as much sunompact as possible. Then add one very tiny exocet mark somewhereon the board so nobody will forget they are winning on exocet :)




	Post number : #31
	Date :	10/3/2007 10:52:55 AM Author : JW
		If performance is key and therefore all weightsavings possible is desireable then leave the (nice) striping away also. If no paint because of weight issues then leave also the marketing striping and deliver it 100% WITHOUT any paint. If then to choose for striping or painting? Please choose a very thin layer of white paint to block away as much sunimpact as possible. Then add one very small exocet mark somewhere on the board so nobody will forget they are winning on exocet :) Just my 2ct.




	Post number : #32
	Date :	10/3/2007 11:41:59 PM Author : Armand-Exo
		Another photo from the beast :




	Post number : #33
	Date :	10/4/2007 5:04:55 AM Author : martin
		My point about masts was not trying to compare mast breakages to board failures , but to highlight how much heat black carbon absorbes when exposed to full sunlight on hot days . I am refering to the area at the boom cutout where the bare mast has got so hot after a quite short exposure to sun that I could not touch it . I would be very concerned about what will happen to a large black board sitting on the beach on a 35 deg C sunny day . I love the look of the board , it,s super cool , really sinister and purposeful . Fantastic. It will just need to be treated very carefully in hot ,sunny climates .




	Post number : #34
	Date :	10/4/2007 9:44:32 AM Author : Koen B-12
		All points are well taken, and heat exposure to composite materials is something to threath with care. When looking to what is happening with a sandwich board when its heating up from sunexposure, you can differentiate different efects: EFFECT 1) the hotter the resin, the softer it is getting. The specif type of resin and the temperatures that are reached during the curing process of the resin are key parameters that define upto what temperature the resin is still holding X% of its mechanical caracteristics. Depending upon the choosen materials and production process, this point can go from 50�c upto 150�c. Black materials lying in the sun without aircooling can go up to 60-80�c This 1st type of "overheating" effect I don't regard as beeing a significant problem for windsurf race boards, since as soon as you put the board in the water and air is flowing over it, the temp will drop down to a "not critical" level. So you will never load the laminate in "overheated" conditions like is the case with masts. EFFECT 2): the PVC-sandwich foam layer is heating up due to direct contact with outer epoxy/carbon layer: Also the PVC foam will get softer as temp is going up. When heat is going up inside the PVC-material, also the airpressure inside the PVC foam cells wll heat up and try to expand. You might think that airpressure increase in the PVC cells could lead to delamination of the outer epoxy-carbon resin layer. This is not the case, since there is a rather low amount of air in the PVC foam and since both pvc and epoxy are getting a little softer in very high temp, there will be some flexibility in the material that takes up this little overpressure. Again, as soon as you use the boardon the water, also the PVC layer will coll down immediately. The only point of attention is to avoid local pressure points/contacts on an "overheated" sandwich surface, since it will be easier to push little dents in it (all is softer). Those dents are created when you compress localy the PVC plate and create a permanent deformation.The thinner the outer epoxy/carbon layer, the mower the forces are to create this dents.This is why you typicly see this more often on bottoms then decks. By the way, those dents can be created at normal "working temp" also. (little rocks or stones under the board,...) I even use the above effects in the opposite way to get those dents back out. I put locally a black tape on the dent and really put in direct "summer" sunlight for half an hour (with airvent open). The epoxy and PVC layers will soften and the air inside the PVC will push the compressed PVC layer "open" again and dent wil dissapear. So effect 1) and effect2) I don't consider beeing a problem for a full black carbon sandwich board. EFFECT 3) After a while, the inner foam core will start to heat up. This foam is very light and contains a lot of air. The volume of the foam is also BIG. So here, the expanding volume due to increasing temp is the major risk for problems. In a way you need to let this "overpressure" get out. If not, the pressure on the sandwich laminate will get that big that it might result in "delamination" in other words, the board might explode,.... The higher the volume of the board and the darker the colour, the more this becomes critical. To conclude: the most important thing to think about with dark coloured boards (not only black, but also grey, darkblue,....) when parking them in direct sunlight for a longer time is to OPEN THE AIRVENT and let the overpressure go out. So if you keep this in mind for the "black" beast, then there is nothoing to worry about and you can go out and enyou this board for years. PS: full carbon boards keep there structural stability and shape much longer then wooden boards since humidity is always penetrating the laminate over time and since the wood in windsurfboard construction is not always 100% saturated with resin ( wood + water = NOK). I hope this cleared out some things




	Post number : #35
	Date :	10/4/2007 11:42:46 AM Author : John I
		What water temps does one need to mitigate this problem? What happens if the water is 80 deg F? What about prolonged reaches/runs where the rails and deck stay dry, and the sun and air temp do their "magic"? I've seen white boards delaminate by too much sun exposure. It's a big deal in FL and points south. Let's try an egg fry on a similar surface in the southern most tip of Thailand. Are we plying the river denial? The cover idea has merit if one has unlimited time/patience. Spray a light coat of white paint, and then sand a bit for the wet-on-wet finish? All moot to me. As soon as sails went (might as well have been cast iron) double luff, FW lost my recreational interest. Lots of other casual users went to freeride as well. Thanks EXO for Konas... Good luck with this thing.




	Post number : #36
	Date :	10/4/2007 6:17:56 PM Author : Markus
		John, you are talking about Fahrenheit vs Celcius: 80 deg F would be about 27�C. 50�C would be about 122�F. Does the water get this warm in Florida?




	Post number : #37
	Date :	10/4/2007 6:24:30 PM Author : Koen
		Hi John, Once you are using the board on the water, even in the warmest climates, you will have a flow of air + water that is "cooling" the board below any critical temperatures. Offcourse, putting the board in the water dead calm without wind can also be perceived as parking in the sun. It is not so much the temp that is causing the risk for delamination by effect3 , but the difference in temperature and presure increase in core foam. I have seen black & hollow surfboards around and they seem to have no problems with heat. On the other hand, not a bad idea from you to put a 28-32gr heatreflecting coating on one side of the board. If registred without, it is upto the final customer to descide to sand it away or not. Regarding Formula: If planing & cruising is your thing, it is still the earliest planing windsurfingboard out on the market today. I to like non planing Kona-style low-wind racing. The tactical part can be fun, but the windsurffeeling itself, slogging around a course is much less fun. But let's not take that discussion here.




	Post number : #38
	Date :	10/4/2007 6:28:43 PM Author : mimich
		I think you forgot EFFECT 4) Two or three different kind of materials (epoxy-carbon/PVC/epoxy-carbon/foam) will expand in a different way when under hard heating. So the junction between layers will be submitted to tensions that will tend to fragilize the board structure. If it is just about 30 to 50 g of painting, is it really worth to take the risk to reduce the durability of the board? Dont forget that there are also people that will buy the board just for leisure, maybe in second hand, and that they would like the board to last a little bit...




	Post number : #39
	Date :	10/4/2007 7:20:22 PM Author : MEF
		Intresting discussion about the extra weight but... Does anyone have have an idea around which fin(s) was the board developed? And against what other formula boards were made the tests? There are fin companies that you must preorder some months ago so it will be very interesting to know the fin "evolution" of the board.... MEF




	Post number : #40
	Date :	10/4/2007 7:23:00 PM Author : JW
		An other EFFECT: weight. The new 162 by starboard is listed a 9.15 kg where the new warp formula will be listed a 7,8 kg. Still both boards are a long way from the 7,5 kg limit WITH fin and straps. Without these the board can be as light as 6.5 kg (and then still with fin and straps the total will be over the weightlimit of 7,5 kg). Just imagion that both boards have identical shape, (outline, scoop rocker width etc) then how big will be the effect of the weight difference between the starboard and the exocet? The exocet is 1.35 kg lighter, that is about 15% WEIGHTSAVING. Just curious what to expect of the weightsaving exactly??




	Post number : #41
	Date :	10/4/2007 7:34:04 PM Author : Pete
		I sail Formula recreationally only and plan to get this board. I currently have the SB Formula Experience, which is ASA and indestructible, and a nice board, but also weighs 11.5 kg. I am a lightweight at about 70 kg, so I still get going very early (my R13 70 cm +8 Soft helps a ton!), but I can still feel the weight holding me back a bit on early planing, and staying on plane in lulls and jibes. I am drooling for this 7.8 kg black beauty! I will be a planing and jibing machine on this thing. Bring it on. As for the controversy about the finish, I live in New England, so not quite as tough as for locales like John I.'s down there in FL, but I guess I will just have to be a bit careful. Hey, at only 7.8 kg, maybe I'll just put it back in the trailer during a break! Or maybe I will just get a mooring for it and swim out to it... ;) -Pete




	Post number : #42
	Date :	10/4/2007 7:40:48 PM Author : vent screw...
		Koen, you're point on effect #3 is well taken - use the #*($# vent screw! Of course, that's only half the picture. So you park the board in the sun, with the vent open. The you close the vent and go sail. The pressure inside the board is the same as outside when you close the vent before you hit the water. Hitting the water, the board cools down dramatically, reducing the gas pressure inside the foam core significantly. That results in stress on the laminate at a time when it's getting loaded up with tremendous forces. This problem exists with white boards as well - I'm just concerned about seeing it magnified. I guess the answer is to carry your board to the water, submerse it with the vent open (above water, obviously, wait for the hissing sound at the vent to subside, then close the vent. And I've never seen anyone do that - have you?




	Post number : #43
	Date :	10/4/2007 8:53:00 PM Author : John I
		In the navy and coast guard, we always put together a plan that was "sailor proof" an nicer way of saying idiot proof. Need I say more? Again, moot for me, I just bob for waves with my Kona 11,5 and Cuben 7.4 sail. The FW board is very pretty. Good luck in all your endeavors....




	Post number : #44
	Date :	10/4/2007 10:33:15 PM Author : Icebear
		The hollow Div II boards from back in the 80's had a plastic tube (30cm long) in a pig tail shape so the pressure (or underpressure ) got equalize and the tube's length made sure no water got sucked in to the board . Maybe a thing to look into ....




	Post number : #45
	Date :	10/5/2007 12:35:14 AM Author : Jaime Metcher
		Re the cooling of the board when put in the water - the stress caused by the negative gas pressure inside the board isn't really the issue. The big problem would be the tendency of the board to suck in water through any pinhole in the skin or the vent screw seal. On hot days (35-40 degrees celsius) we put catamarans and dinghys into the water with the inspection hatches open for exactly this reason. But putting a board in the water with the vent screw open, especially in any kind of chop or shorebreak, just isn't practicable. I would suggest that if you have to put the board in the sun for a short while, close the vent screw first so that after recooling the board is at neutral pressure. If you have to put the board in the sun for longer than it takes to rig - well, you've got a problem that's already been amply pointed out.




	Post number : #46
	Date :	10/5/2007 11:42:13 AM Author : Koen B-12
		This is not a hollow board and the foam core, although it is light, still has some mechanical strenghts.Tthe "underpressure" as described above is not really a problem for the boardconstruction, but indeed, like Jaime is saying, if there is a hole or a crack, water will be sucked in. This is actually valid for all boards, black and not black. That is why it is interesting to pressurize your board if you have big temp fluctuations (night/day, cold water warm airtemp,.....) and offcourse any small crack should be made air & water tight asap. Regular inspections are a must on any board, no difference with this one.




	Post number : #47
	Date :	10/5/2007 4:00:59 PM Author : headache
		Three years ago have sailed at +13 C, then traveled with board on the car roof to -20 C. The vent screw was closed. Bottom sandwich got strong square shape deformation under the mastfoot. Temperature difference was 36 degrees in 24 hours. So I'm very sensitive to temperature changes. Thin layer of paint ads about 300 g.




	Post number : #48
	Date :	10/5/2007 7:56:22 PM Author : oB
		Questions: 1. How slippery boards desk? 2. How thin boards nose? Compare with F2. 3. What fin and rake good for this board. 4. How is speed, upwind, downwind? 5. How is on flat water, on choppy? On swell? Black � better possibility to take water off the board after damages. I never like black colour. Don�t like and bay Point7 or NeilPryde RS � they are with black monofilm.




	Post number : #49
	Date :	10/5/2007 10:59:23 PM Author : Hakan
		The hollow board seems to be the best and only option for this black racing machine. Not only the Div II boards of old days but also AHD had a hollow board technology that they were using for their NT formula boards. Before Exocet; I was an AHD rider and the boards were the stiffest and the strongest carbon board that I have ever used. Just undestructable...There's no risk of heat and also water for this board. There were two vents on the board. One was a small one used as an air vent. There was also a big manual vent at the back to take out the chill that may result from night and day temperature differences and in case you want to wash the board inside. After AHD lost the marketshare of formula boards; they stopped using this technology but probably the ovens and the technology used to produce that boards are still available in the Tunisian factory or may be in Switzerland. I recently read in a website that the Tunisian factory producing boards for AHD and Thommen is recently closed. But I'm not sure about the reliability of this news. Wouldn't be nice option to have such a full carbon board. Also the precision of the production process is far more better than Cobra. An Exocet board from AHD factory ! This would be really interesting to see like a recurrence of history but now both companies will be in reverse roles.




	Post number : #50
	Date :	10/6/2007 4:16:46 AM Author : Vincent
		Hi, I used an Exocet formula board for 1 year with the paint removed on the bottom. Never opened the vent screw. Left it repeatedly under the sun in 35C temperature, sometimes for extended periods of time. The board heated up way high. However no delamination ever occurred. I've also left numerous boards in vehicles with temperatures over 50C for hours. Never opened a vent screw. Never had a problem. Given these observations, I think that if a board is well built, it should not delaminate when heated-up. Vent screw or not.... We pound these boards going 25-30 knots in chop with huge fins and sails. Even if it is designed to primarely resist compression, you'd think the foam/composite interface is capable to withstand a little bit of delaminating stress due to air expansion. Vincent.




	Post number : #51
	Date :	10/6/2007 12:54:27 PM Author : Leszek
		about the overpressure / underpressure effect -> just don't open the vent... when you get your board out cover it with your board bag and that's it. As to the AHD hollow boards they were the biggest mistake ever. the bottom was delaminating in most of them and as for performance, the best AHD rider back then - Antoine Albeau,was using a 3-year-old board during his last season with AHD because all the newer ones were crap. And the hollow technology is pretty expensive too isn't it? I really think that the color is a minor problem. if you want to paint the deck then do it. I won't and I promise to let you know if anything happens to the board.




	Post number : #52
	Date :	10/17/2007 6:17:39 AM Author : oB
		So, where answers are? Nice looking board, but how on water? Who designer, who tested, where tested and in what condition board? All folks looks like about board color, but is that so important




	Post number : #53
	Date :	10/17/2007 12:36:16 PM Author : Remi
		What follows is a brief description posted on the French forum: Development done based on the XL99 for the tail, shape and rocker line are a new design. All the team got involved with a huge effort from Jean Marie Guiriec 1m wide, 230 long, 158 litres and only 8kg!!! Construction = 100% carbon. The board got developed in Brest/France and tested in different conditions and spots in France (Biarritz, Hourtin, Il de Re, La Tranche sur Mer). Team riders raced it on the French Tour and pulled some 2nd! Fins: R13, R17, R18 & R19 Sails: Pryde 11.8 10.7 9.0 Riders: 75 KG, 88 Kg, 100 KG.




	Post number : #54
	Date :	10/17/2007 3:15:41 PM Author : Koen B-12
		A lot of emphasis has been put on a board that works for a variety of people in a variety of conditions. I think it is the first time that an exocet formula board has been tested soo much before release.




	Post number : #55
	Date :	10/17/2007 6:09:45 PM Author : MEF
		I have nothing against Remi (on the contrary, thanks for translating it!) but this report is a bit "funny". All sail sizes, every riders weight, all the existing fins from Deb (i would guess all the stiffnesses too....) are in there. Why the people who shaped/tested/raced it dont add any comments??? When will be the right time to know the boards that was tested against (161, f2, others?) and the fins that suit the board best? MEF




	Post number : #56
	Date :	10/17/2007 9:52:45 PM Author : Remi
		MEF As Koen emphazised the board has been through an extensive tests program in a wide range of conditions and riders sizes. As for the fins, it is very much rider's dependent even with other brands, overhere, Oz, some riders love the R19 on the board and others just can't make it work... I don't think I am taking much risk saying that the board got tested against the board 160 & 161 (during the French Formula Tour) as they currently have the monopoly on the market... to be changed :)!!!




	Post number : #57
	Date :	10/18/2007 12:00:06 AM Author : Leszek
		yeah. cman, give it some time. I mean how much do you know about other Formulas for 08. eeee... nothing. I expect that by the end of January we will know much much more about the board and settings and still that is super early. It's not really possible to get the board earlier is it? So be patient. It's better to know that an opinion is true for sure then base the judgement on one hour of sailing by mister X.




	Post number : #58
	Date :	10/20/2007 6:38:12 AM Author : JR
		Patrice, would it be possible to add a few foot strap plugs for a 5th and 6th strap. I have a WF07 and found the forced placement of the 5th strap to be incorrect and also quite difficult. Having to tap through the foot strap into the forward fin screw was quite inconvenient not to mention annoying every time I rigged. Anyone who races in 9.0 to 11.0 conditions in choppy waters must have had the same problem with the WF07. I'm referring to San Francisco conditions racing against some of the best amateur racers in the world. With the even wider tail for the WF'08, it seems imperative that you give us some options for a 5th and 6th strip. Mike's Lab boards, http://www.mikeslab.com/L8.htm , are heavily tested in all conditions here and they have proven that 2 extra straps can and will give you much better control and speeds off the wind than any configuration ever tested on any board. Especially in strong winds and rough waters. Any chance of this happening? Also, could the boards be sold with a boardbag option. These new shapes are extremely difficult to find bags that fit. By the way, we've been enjoying our Konas here on the West Coast. Thanks for a great product. Sail On! Jean




	Post number : #59
	Date :	10/20/2007 3:35:19 PM Author : Andy
		Hi all I've no clue about rules and registration procedure for formula board, but I've just seen on a ISAF website that the black machine is registered with 8.9 kg: http://www.sailing.org/tools/documents/ISAF_List_Formula(06_07)-[994].pdf Does this tells us something about the weight of the production board? Will it be 8.9 kg instead of the announced 8.9 kg. Or does these 8.9 kg include fin and footstraps? It would be great if exocet could these realize 8kg for the production formula board. I wish you good luck with your black machine. I have to replace my old formula board and I will keep an eye on your products ... Regards Andy Switzerland




	Post number : #60
	Date :	10/20/2007 4:31:34 PM Author : 22
		And we also get a Gaastra Formula board on the market ?? Not yet a new F2?? Do they go back to the still verty competitive 2005 board? So we get Exocet starboard Gaastra F2 as options? and ML 8 for the San Fransico guys.




	Post number : #61
	Date :	10/20/2007 5:15:14 PM Author : Leszek
		Yeah Gaastra is making a board this year aswell. And if F2 does what they say in the catalogue there might be 2 F2s. so this would give 2 *boards, 2 F2s, Gaastra ans Exocet. and that's one of gaastras prototypes: http://www.vejasgalvoje.lt/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=44&Itemid=1




	Post number : #62
	Date :	10/20/2007 10:31:55 PM Author : Koen B-12
		The first 10 boards(needed for registration) are made and they have the exact same lay-up as the other production boards that will follow. Some of these boards where transported with airplane (Patrice -Sylt) . The exact weights are only know when production starts. The figures in the ISAF list are best estimates at the moment of sending the registration papers in. I believe they will be corrected based upon the 10 first boards. In the catalogue it is mentioned 8kg +/- 6% , so somewhere between 8,48 kg and 7,52 kg Normally the first boards are always heavier, so it was already really promissing that the sylt board came out at 7.8 kg.




	Post number : #63
	Date :	10/21/2007 6:37:06 PM Author : Leszek
		yeah ok, but why does it say 8.9kg on the isaf list ??




	Post number : #64
	Date :	10/21/2007 7:17:39 PM Author : 22
		with a weight of less then 8 kg I will order. can exocet deliver?




	Post number : #65
	Date :	10/23/2007 10:02:40 AM Author : Andy
		(Slightly off topic - sorry:) I'm generally curious what board weights will come out of the cobra factory this year. I ordered a 2008 board from an other brand: The test board I got in September was 6.9 kg instead of the announced 6.1 kg. Let's see ... By the way: The tolerance of +/-6% might be ok for the producer, but for the consumer who buys a board in a high-priced segment the "+6%-model" could be disappointing. Maybe board producer should handle it like Scott-USA with their carbon bikes: For 2 different product lines (regarding price and weight) they use the same lay-up and production process (as far as I know). Every single bike will be assigned to the more expensive line A or to the less expensive line B - according to its weight - and the bike gets the corresponding sticker. They still have weight tolerances within one line, but those are smaller. Or do windsurf-board producer already produce like this and I didn't know? @ Leszek The swiss importer for F2 boards told me in August that the announcement of two F2 formula boards in that catalogue isn't correct any more. Regards Andy, Switzerland




	Post number : #66
	Date :	10/24/2007 9:22:35 PM Author : 22
		As Andy wrote: By the way: The tolerance of +/-6% might be ok for the producer, but for the consumer who buys a board in a high-priced segment the "+6%-model" could be disappointing. Maybe board producer should handle it like Scott-USA with their carbon bikes: For 2 different product lines (regarding price and weight) they use the same lay-up and production process (as far as I know). Every single bike will be assigned to the more expensive line A or to the less expensive line B - according to its weight - and the bike gets the corresponding sticker. They still have weight tolerances within one line, but those are smaller. Because of this I will buy the board that is under 7.8 kg. So if any importer gets a new Exocet 2008 formula board under 7.8 kg (and that must be an option) then that is mine. Call it the A-line :) I will be dissappointed to get the board with the max tolerance being almost 8.5 knowing that it could have been 7.52 ?. Somehow Ime getting the heavier boards this seems always the case when i get my board ? Strange act of mister Murphy I guess.




	Post number : #67
	Date :	11/3/2007 8:53:14 AM Author : Remi
		Ok, I just had my first real go on the black machine after 2 session in really light winds. The first feeling is incdredible, it's Plug and Play, easy upwind, downwind, on a reach... sails like a big slalom board. It looks fantastic, ultra light (haven't bothered putting it on a balance but it's lighter than everything else). So this session was in light wind, 10-15 kts, my settings were as follow: Front straps: 3rd hole from back Back straps: 2nd hole from back Mast track, middle Sail: TR3 10.0 (underpowered) Fin: C3 J70 Sailed against 2 *board 161 RS6 & RS Racing 10.7 and it's at least as good. The downwind is a big improvement for me, easy and fast. The sharp rails make it really easy upwind, it tracks upwind on its own. Not much volume in the nose, so just need to be aware of this tacking, dont spend too much time at the front otherwise it goes underwater! Next weekend is a racing weekend, will report again then. Cheers, Remi




	Post number : #68
	Date :	11/3/2007 9:34:31 AM Author : jukt
		The weight variation is kind of frustrating especially since if you're not buds with the importer or a top racer, you're gonna get the heavy one... I really doubt that the weight distribution the "normal" customer gets is really going to be random.




	Post number : #69
	Date :	11/3/2007 11:07:14 AM Author : Ricardo
		Hi Jukt, Once the boards are coming out of the mould, the weight variation is not 6%, it is much less. The 6% is more a thing they use to cover the possible difference between the protoypes (and best estimlates) and the final production boards. Often the productsheets for the adds are made before the production boards are there. It is also a marketing tool to show lower weights,.....




	Post number : #70
	Date :	11/3/2007 2:52:48 PM Author : Andy
		Hi Ricardo That's great, if the variation is less than 6% for Exocet-boards. I just got my 2008 board (light version) from another brand (no names, produced at Cobra factory, but it's not Exocet) and it was 7.5% heavier than anounced in the product sheet - so beyond the tolerance of 6%. Regards, Andy




	Post number : #71
	Date :	11/4/2007 9:29:20 AM Author : Ricardo
		Board to board variation is normally less then 6% , it is indeed often the differences with the productsheets that can be upto or sometimes over those 6%.




	Post number : #72
	Date :	11/4/2007 6:00:51 PM Author : oB
		Hi, Remi, your write � � session was in light wind, 10-15 kts Sail: TR3 10.0 (underpowered)� For formula it is near strong wind. How understand ligt wind with 10 sail underpowered on formula???? So what wind for your is strong and what your can say about 7�9 kont wind?




	Post number : #73
	Date :	11/5/2007 6:52:04 AM Author : Remi
		Hi OB, I went with what the BOM reported, but it was definitely closer to 10 kts and being 90 kg, it is light wind with 10.0. 10.0 is usually for winds from 18+, which would be strong wind in Fromula. In 7 kts I think it's worth doing something else, in 9 kts you probably can get it going with a sail big enough, it would have to be a 12.0 for me. Hope this helps. This being said I could keep up on the Exo Warp as it gets going in nothing. Cheers, Remi




	Post number : #74
	Date :	11/27/2007 8:13:39 PM Author : Mattias SWE73
		Hi. I am about to buy the new Warp Formula. What I would like to know is: Does it need a powerfull fin in lightwind? My weight is between 94-97kg and I use 12,4 HansenSails. Any good trimtips in different waterconditions? Strappositioning? Rigposition?



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